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Databoy's avatar

My buddy in Vinnytsia mentioned that Orbán's anti-Ukraine hysteria is off the charts. I mentioned to another buddy in Kyiv that there were so many pictures of President Zelenskyy on political posters in Hungary right now that he might get elected President!

Yastreblyansky's avatar

I have this idea that won't quit, connected to Ukraine being literally Beyond the Pale (along with my own ancestral Moldova)--that a lot of anti-Ukraine hostility has been related for a couple centuries to the importance of the Jewish community. Applies to Stalin and Putin, certainly, and you can see why it would be aimed at Zelenskyy. Similarly why not to Orbán and Trump and Rod Dreher and their CPAC friends?

Cheez Whiz's avatar

I have never been able to wrap my head around antisemitism, hating Jews because they are Jews. Knowing no Jewish people until sometime in my 40's didn't help. But the tsunami of evidence is undeniable. It makes no sense to me, but (looks around, waves hands) you know? Making no sense is no barrier to being real.

I read a recent John Ganz speech at King's College where he laid out a Republican battle between paleocons and neocons, old-school nationalists like Robert Taft and Pat Buchannan and converted Jewish liberals like Podhoretz and Kristol. I'm mangling his argument a bit but if you havn't read it I found it illuminating.

Yastreblyansky's avatar

He posted the whole thing at his substack, saw it this morning! https://yastreblyansky.substack.com/publish/posts/published

Cheez Whiz's avatar

Don't know enough about Hungary to know if Orban has the paramilitary muscle a dictator needs to enforce a minority government that could lose an election. The Republicans don't which is why vote supression is their go-to move, in either case, any dictatorship without the muscle to shut down democracy has a sell-by date. Vote supression and propaganda have been a powerful 1-2 punch, but Trump's lack of interest in consolidating power beyond waving Article 2 around will test the limits of it.

Conspiracy is a natural reaction to an unacceptable event, such as the death of JFK or the survival of Trump. Pile enough factoids and truthiness up and you can look away from the holes in the argument. And the kid deliberately missing Trump is a big hole.

Yastreblyansky's avatar

Their movement really has been known for avoiding violent repression, using legal maneuvers (including detaining people for Facebook posts they don't like, that's pretty bad) and financial pressure instead.

It's clear the kid didn't "deliberately miss" Trump. That would take extraordinary skill he didn't have. It's perfectly possible he did miss, and the ear grazing could well have been from shrapnel, but he took eight shots, all of which came reasonably close. There was no reason to kill the guy he did kill.

Cheez Whiz's avatar

Sounds a lot like Trump's administration, though shooting people in the face for being disrespectful trumps detaining Facebook dissidents for me.

Trump simply cannot be allowed this kind of luck, he doesn't deserve it. Everything can be explained by the amply demonstrated incompetence of everyone involved, and 1 piece of dumb luck. Far easier for me to swallow than an elaborate conspiracy requiring Hollywood levels of competence and ingenuity. From this lot.

Bern's avatar

Good to hear somma these guys are on the ropes (and leave us all agree precisely which sort of ropes the end of which they should all be on...)